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File: 1211055977464.jpg -(170869 B, 850x637) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
170869 No.125049  

The Moe Chart

Is it a good paradigm?

And where would Azuma's works fit in?

>> No.125051  

I'd say all the way on the right, 3/4 down the bottom.

>> No.125058  

I find that chart somewhat confusing and overly complex.

Besides that, it tries to confine moe to 4 basic archetypes, while in reality damn near anything can be moe.

>> No.125059  

Going by the labels on the axes, they're pretty much in the middle of the lower left quadrant. But this particular chart doesn't seem to be designed to handle them.

>> No.125075  

I'm completely confused by this chart.

>> No.125078  

>>125075

Then there's hope for you yet.

>> No.125079  
File: 1211074543209.jpg -(710292 B, 2627x1802) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
710292

This chart provides for too few moe archetypes, completely disregarding personalities / situations of moe characters such as the one pictured.

>> No.125081  
File: 1211081028346.gif -(6338 B, 500x500) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
6338
>> No.125082  

The term moe is way overused now days. Kind of like how the term tsundere became overused. I'd say only a handful of the Azu characters actually fit the term "moe."

>> No.125083  

>>125082
Yeah, Osaka, and.. I dunno, maybe Sakaki. Maybe.

Yomi's got the glasses and tights things going for her, but her personality is so rough that she doesn't really fit the moe definition.

>> No.125086  

>>125081
I recognized the chart, but I was hoping it was going to be edited for /azu/ characters.

>> No.125087  

I didn't even think Azuma's stuff counted as moe manga. Every time I hear someone try to define moe I just end up more confused.

>> No.125097  
File: 1211109903732.gif -(5644 B, 500x500) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
5644

>>125086
Not sure about the others.

>> No.125103  
File: 1211112442148.gif -(5431 B, 500x500) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
5431

Not to scale.

>> No.125108  

>>125049
All I get is that watching hot lesbian sex is opposed to sexual arousal.

>>125081
Thatcher is right between Hitler and Friedman just a tad more radical? Who would have thought? Me.

>> No.125109  

>>125103
I think that Kagura is way more on the cute side.

>> No.125110  
File: 1211118634666.gif -(5434 B, 500x500) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
5434

>>125103
Fixed.

>> No.125111  
File: 1211119419924.jpg -(53036 B, 640x360) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
53036

>>125082>>125083>>125087

I've heard the discussion about "what is moe" many times, and every time I hear people saying that different characters are moe. The character pictured fits the most default definition of moe, however, like >>125079
points out, some consider completely different personalities moe.

In a "what is moe" conversation I heard long ago, someone put it, I think, as accurately as possible, which I'll reiterate here. Moe describes an archetypical set of traits for which the observer (the one who considers it moe) feels true love (not pure lust, although lust usually follows) for the person / character. I should emphasize that the trait set must be archetypical, so a "plane jane" person / character could not be considered moe, even if you loved them to death, unless you specifically loved them BECAUSE they were plain. In other words, Chihiro or Rachel Handelbarz couldn't be called moe, even if they are cute and likable.

Thus, moe is subjective. Some people probably find Kagura moe, while I don't. But she is a very archetypical character, the stereotypical sporty tomgirl.
Some people find Osaka moe for her vulnerability, which is one of the major traits of what is most commonly considered moe (and may or may not have been the "original" definition of moe.) As I heard one person say, while some characters need protecting from a giant monster, Osaka needs help just to keep from walking into walls. I personally consider her the most moe of the Azu girls. But out of all real people and fictional characters, the one I find most moe is >>125079

>> No.125112  
File: 1211119461555.jpg -(221339 B, 824x1200) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
221339
>> No.125113  

>>125111
I wouldn't necessarily say it's when the observer considers it "true love" but it's definitely non-sexual. I guess one way of putting it might be to call it a non-sexual fetish. It's some trait that you really like, but usually in a more "aww that's adorable" than a "damn that's hot" sort of way.
Note that it's the traits themselves that are moe, and not actually the girls. The girls that have those traits can themselves be moe by extension, but a moe trait can stand on its own (e.g. helpless moe, nerdy moe, "little sister" moe, etc.)

>> No.125114  

Hmm, I think I first came across the term moe about a year ago at most, and only tried to understand what it meant from the context it was given in, rather than looking for a definition.

The impression I got was one that someone's kind of gone over, that it was where you felt an extreme sense of affection for a character because you felt sorry for them, and somewhat protective of them.

>> No.125115  

>>125113
On one hand I agree with you that it doesn't need to be "true love" (I just chose that phrase to emphasize that it was something more than sexual attraction). But on the other hand, I disagree about it being completely non-sexual. Example, some might consider a sexy nurse or maid moe. And the "moe" traits can be related to physical features. Using Mikuru from the suzumiya haruhi series, Mikuru is a typical kind-hearted innocent girl, but her breasts are enormous. On one hand her large breasts seem fitting since she is meant to be an extremely desirable girl, but on the other hand somewhat unfitting since she is a bashful goody-goody. Both add to her moeness.

So, I think the attraction doesn't have to be completely non-sexual, but still, I don't think it can be completely sexual.

>> No.125120  
File: 1211126270811.gif -(5459 B, 500x500) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
5459
>> No.125122  

Not even the Japanese know what moe means. Maybe it once had a meaning, nowadays it's just thrown at any female anime character as long as she doesn't look or act like Josef Stalin. Wait, Stalin probably counts as tsundere-moe.

>> No.125123  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moe_(slang)

>> No.125124  

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=moe

>> No.125125  
File: 1211130510611.jpg -(145230 B, 1200x810) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
145230

>>125049

CHIYO MIHAMA

>> No.125127  

>>125123
>>125124

Yeah, you smartasses we know these 'definitions'. And if you would actually read them you'd see how little information they actually contain.

The urban dictionary entries are more or less excerpts from the wiki acticle and the wiki article is mainly about how moe should not be understood and what the term might also encompass. Brilliant.

So moe is love for an anime character, eh? When I love Golgo 13 for his garness that makes him moe or what. Bullshit. If the authors could actually define the term they wouldn't write such blah-blah right in the first paragraph.

>> No.125128  

A wise man once said: "There is no word that describes the conflicting feelings of 'want to hug' and 'at full force in vagina, ass and mouth' better than 'moe'".

Forgive my French.

>> No.125129  

Konata (Lucky Star) said at one point that she doesn't really understand what "moe" means. And her role (among other things) is to be the mouthpiece of the otaku community.

And it's true that the wikipedia entry is totally obscure and unorganized. A train can be moe but a little cat can't, a cosplayed cat on the other hand can. What about a cosplayed train? And do the authors even know the difference between cosplaying as a cat and as a catgirl? Moe must be young or then again maybe not. I mean WTF.

Any anime fan with a rough belly understanding of the term "moe" won't get any wiser from reading that IMHO, quite the contrary.

>> No.125130  

>>125128

Why 'conflicing'? You're missing basic artistic skills. :D

>> No.125133  
File: 1211136751178.png -(838160 B, 704x396) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
838160

I agree that there is no clear cut definition of moe, but because of that people overuse the term and call every kawaii bishojo character moe, which is not correct. The only real way I've found to describe moe is to use examples.

The two best examples of moe that I have found is Matsuri from Ichigo Mashimaro and Yuki from Lucky Star. Yuki especially was design to fit several moe archetypes.

If I were to define moe, I would say that it is the small characteristics of a person (doesn't have to be female either) that are part of a larger archetype that is generally regarded attractive, cute, endearing, etc., but yet is unique and considered unusual by the general populace.

In which case of the Azu group, I would say Osaka and Chiyo are definitely moe, and maybe Yomi, Sakaki, and Jumbo (yes, Jumbo, do to his hight, but his age kind of goes against that too).

>> No.125135  

>>125133

Problem with moe examples is when you state one two other people will cry "no way". I won't even start getting into yours. ;)

But I give you another one: Manabi Straight is said to by a massive moe anime. Why? As far as I watched it (ep 3-5, don't remember) the girls seemed to be pretty much independent and capable to do their thing. Very important indicators for non-moe.

Bottom line: people can neither properly define moe nor really agree on examples. Makes you question the usefulness of that term.

>> No.125136  

'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone,' it means just what I choose it to mean, neither more nor less.'

'The question is,' said Alice, 'whether you can make words mean so many different things.'

'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master - that's all.'

Also, http://not.dotq.org/?p=210

>> No.125138  
File: 1211141490396.jpg -(32464 B, 500x500) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
32464
>> No.125151  

>>125138
Asagi's cool! Living with your parents and having only one regular friend still makes you cool, right?

>> No.125156  

>>125151
Hell yeah, all the cool kids live with their folks and have limited social circles.

>> No.125160  

>>125127

>>The urban dictionary entries are more or less excerpts from the wiki acticle and the wiki article is mainly about how moe should not be understood and what the term might also encompass. Brilliant.

>>125129

>>And it's true that the wikipedia entry is totally obscure and unorganized.

It's wikipedia.
Edit it.

>> No.125161  

>>125133
I would consider Miyuki to be a particular type of moe, but on the other hand Yutaka is an entirely different type of moe. Therein lies the problem, when such drastically different character types can both be "moe," it makes it hard to define.
>>125135
I wouldn't really call Manabi Straight a moe anime.

>> No.125163  

>>125151
We haven't gotten past summer yet, though... I always thought Asagi was just home on break. Come to think of it, until Yanda, everyone kind of had the "one friend" thing going on.

>> No.125164  

>>125138

Miura and Ena should both be more sexy

>> No.125166  

>>125161
I'd actually like to expand on that, because I've just had an epiphany.
I was considering that Miyuki, Yutaka, and Tsukasa are the only really moe characters in Lucky Star, because each of them embodies a particular character archetype. But then I realized all of the characters are some sort of character archetpye (whether that was done in an attempt to sell DVDs, or in an attempt to be satirical is up for debate), and it suddenly occured to me that those three are the only ones that I find moe, but the others (Konata, Kagami, etc.) are more than certainly moe to other fans. I don't include them in my definition of moe because their personality traits don't evoke that particular response in me, but they undoubtedly evoke that response in others.

tl;dr, moe is any quality that evokes a particular emotion in the viewer, but that quality can be pretty much anything. Of course some qualities are much more common than others, but it's the emotional response that defines it as being moe.

This has all probably been covered at one point or another in this thread, but I'm going to take credit for summarizing it all neatly in one post.

>> No.125174  
File: 1211153719840.jpg -(81475 B, 784x401) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
81475

>>125163
Dorms are for chumps.

>> No.125175  
File: 1211153750266.jpg -(37769 B, 489x433) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
37769

On second thought, I don't really think you can graph moe after all.

>> No.125178  

>>125175
No, but you can use a dichotomous key. It's only got one step though.
1a) Makes you go "Awww." Moe
1b) Anything else. Not Moe

>> No.125181  

>>125178

I agree.

I find pretty much everything moe in certain amounts though, so maybe I shouldn't talk.

>> No.125195  

>>125178
So what does that make Dali

>> No.125206  

>>125195
I would refer you again to the key. It must fall into one of those two categories.

>> No.125207  

So, who and/or how was the word moe coined then? Why create a word that has no definition?

Wait... deja-vu.... Supercalafragilisticexpaladocious...

>> No.125208  

what ever happened to "giddy" or "wuvable"

I love anime and it's fucked up culture, but I'm not going to slice and dice shit like this

>> No.125223  

Okay, I think I've finally figured it out.

"Moe" is just the male otaku version of the fangirl squee.

>> No.125224  

Handy guide:
http://awiimoe.ytmnd.com/

>> No.125281  

The only "Moe" I know of goes along with Curly and Larry.

I don't get this particular "Moe".

>> No.125291  

Yes, but that also fits with Azu moe, as Osaka, Tomo and Kagura are very nyuk-nyuk and woo-woo-woo. I believe "I'm a victim of coicumstance!" is Kansai-ben.

>> No.125298  
File: 1211247849128.png -(16284 B, 800x600) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
16284

It's all very straightforward.

>> No.125299  
File: 1211248033760.jpg -(230368 B, 1135x1753) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
230368

Perhaps a more interesting question is when and why the term of moe began to be applied. Was Lain moe?

>> No.125304  

>>125299
If you're into what she is, yes.

>> No.125308  
File: 1211250559371.png -(284026 B, 1064x1516) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
284026

this should clear things up (1/2)

>> No.125309  
File: 1211250758563.png -(366851 B, 1064x1516) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
366851

2/2

>> No.125310  

>>125309
Wait what? Shitting for the author?

>> No.125311  
File: 1211251677876.jpg -(33524 B, 852x480) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
33524

>>125304
Moe doesnt come form the characters but from us. So what is it about the 21 century that has brought the need for moe out in us?

>> No.125313  

>>125310
When you get successful enough, you can hire people to carry out your body's natural functions.

Or you can just hire illegal immigrants to do it. I've got a Mexican guy who does all my blinking.

>> No.125314  

>>125313
Dammit Social Disaster, you're taking jobs out of the hands of hard working American blinkers!

>> No.125315  

>>125314
Hey, can you find an American willing to blink for less than a nickel a month? 'Cause I can't!

>> No.125322  

>>125310
i'm pretty sure unko means poop or something like that.
more here: http://hr.deadgods.net/hr/kareha.pl/1177407861/



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